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-- If we were to tier SS2.... (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48771)

Posted by UnCauzi on December 10th, 2001 03:12 AM:
If we were to tier SS2....

Preface [Please Read]
I was having this discussion with some gamer freinds of mine
and I just would like to get others peoples opinions based on
gameplay and not "favorite character." If you are one of those
anti tier fanatics I would like to take this opportunity to say
blow it out your arse hole.

I think it would go something like this:

1. Ukyo- Besides the swallow slice he just has way to much priority going for him in his crouching and standing A or B. His crouching kick has great anti air capability trading with practically nothing. There is no real incentive to make a turtle Ukyo standup and the crouching A+B is FAST and does lots of damage. Not to mention Ukyo has good throw priority.

2. Galford- Poppy is always a valuable tool and he will continue going even if Galford is struck! Couple that with the versatility of the pooch and the piledriver and crouching fierce of both ninja characters we all have grown to love. Galford is definately a contender. Good air priority also on most air attacks, lack of range and speed on ground attacks puts him under Ukyo imho.

3. Seiger- Throw combo = big ouch, plus good chip damage from gun arm deal. A attack in air or ground beats most other moves, Big damage and priority on jumping A+B. Make a mistake and die. Lack of real offense puts him under other 2.

4. Jubei- Great range and speed. Can combo projectile and uppercut easily. Also has a high damaging counter. Jubei had very good normals and specials but it's hard to do quick damage with him. Otherwise he'd be #1.

5. Charlotte- She can poke you to death with B from a mile away with no real threat to a counter attack. However people do make mistakes so this tactic alone won't make her win, but then theres jump+a+b which crosses up and does a hell of a lot of damage. Very brain dead character here, crazy priority but hard to deal any real damage without getting in close. Which will be hard to do against the above cast, who can either stay out of her close game, or can deal with her pokes.

2nd tier short and sweet-
Genan- High priority attacks, doesn't do damage fast enuff.
Kyoshiro- priority range, safe projectiles, chipping flame.
Haohmaru- damage, air ground priority, slow projectile, good AA.
Genjuro- nice comboability, decent projectile, less range than hao.
Hanzo- Galford without dog, loses some mind games but still effective.
Cham Cham- priority, great specials, lacks range and easy damage.
Earthquake- damage and range nuff said.

3rd tier-
Wanfu
Caffiene
Nakoruru

These are kind of in order tell me what you think.

Posted by Ultima on December 10th, 2001 04:04 AM:
Re: If we were to tier SS2....

[snip]

SS2 overall tier goes like this: Ukyo is far and away at number 1, Nakoruru is dead last, and everone else was in the middle.

To go into more detail, I seem to remember rankings (these from Gamest, which I agree with for at least the top 5 characters) being more like this:

1) Ukyo - No questions asked. Too much damage, too much priority, After Image attack is nigh unpunishable by anyone who isn't Nakoruru.

2) Kyoshiro - Ridiculous pokes with crouching B and crouching AB. Jump back B/AB is the unbeatable air to air (SS is the only game where having a slow high jump is a good thing - see also Tam Tam in SS1). QCB+K does ridiculous block damage. Dizzies opponents very, very easily, and far standing AB can do 40% when raged. If Ukyo weren't ridiculously overpowered, he'd easily be number 1.

3) Charlotte - Great pokes (beaten only by the above two). Fantastic throw range. Jump AB isn't quite as godlike as in SS, but still really good.

4) Cham Cham - Boomerang cuts through all other projectiles and still hits. Really tiny sprite makes her hard to hit (many standing attacks go right over her when he crouches). Maddeningly quick throw, high priority slide (low CD) and her leap n' scratch is really fucking annoying. Her only weakness is that she dizzies very easily (but so does Ukyo, at least theoretically).

5) Gen-an - Really good low pokes (far low A and far low B), standing CD is good anti air, jump early AB is nearly unbeatable air-to-air, throw is really good.

6) Earthquake - All his low slashes are pretty good. Yoga Flame does masssive block damage. Er, I forget what else put him this high. Gen-an is the cut off of the Gamest rankings I agree with.

I kinda forget the rest (except for Nako being dead last of course). I know that Genjuro is ranked above Haohmaru, and that Hanzo is ranked above Galford. I agree with Genjuro, but I never saw how Hanzo was better than Galford. Both the ninjas were ranked pretty low (10 and 12 I think).

Oh, and in case you were wondering, Galford is my favourite character, so this isn't me being biased. I like him a lot, but I don't think he's better than the top 5.
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Posted by G&D on December 10th, 2001 04:37 AM:

i always thought cham cham was the best... o well
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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 10th, 2001 04:54 AM:

Which of Nak's moves can punish Afterimage Slice, and are there other reasons for her being a counter?

And Gamest aside, where is Earthquake generally considered to be? I've played him a bit and I'd have to say he'd be in the lower half, but I'm probably wrong.

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Posted by Neo Rasa on December 10th, 2001 05:07 AM:

Er, I forget what else put him this high.

God-like AB+Good specials overall+rolling and running animtions looking identical IMO

1) Rashoujin Mizuki
2) Kuroko
3) Tachibana Ukyo
4) Senryo Kyoshiro
5) Charlotte
6) Kibagami Genjuro
7) Galford
8) Hattori Hanzo
9) Yagyu Jubei
10) Earthquake
11) Haohmaru
12) Shiranui Gen-an
13) Cham Cham
14) Neinhalt Seiger
15) Caffiene Nicotine
16) Wan-Fu
17) Nakoruru
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Posted by VManOfMana on December 10th, 2001 05:45 AM:

Ouch! Nakoruru last?

So apparently this place really sucks a lot. I remembering owning with Nakoruru on my high school days (1994-1997) and right now I am the best SS2 player at college, being the main contender an asian Ukyo player.

I see Nakoruru's big disadvantages, but I still cannot see why she is that far away. I can play mind games with her good enough to win, and can turtle very well too as well as rushdown.

Any more details on Nakoruru's 'suckyness'?
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Posted by UnCauzi on December 10th, 2001 06:30 AM:

Gamest eh? Nice, I almost forgot about Kyoshiros high damage stuff, and yes those jumping slashes were pretty awesome. Only things that kind of surprise me are Cham Cham and Earthquake but then again in my gaming experience I've never played anyone who used them with any regularity. So I'm not one to argue.

Seiger I heard did well at some big time tournaments, by a turtle player. If I knew the player and tournament still I'd say what but that was my basis for seiger, frankly I've never played a good seiger, I just bought it theoretically considering how they said he played. Which I know revolved around ticking and defensive play. But then again that doesn't mean he's good, just the player is.

Heh and to be honest I think my galford opinion is based on how much of a pain of an ass he is to me Then again I play Wan Fu so go figure.

Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 10th, 2001 02:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by UnCauzi
Only things that kind of surprise me are Cham Cham and Earthquake but then again in my gaming experience I've never played anyone who used them with any regularity. So I'm not one to argue.

I should play Earthquake a little more, as I can't really comment much on him. But Cham Cham definitely rocks. The boomerang, her small size and quickness, her powerful throw, her slide, the jump 'n scratch, and the monkey inferno (free block damage as they get up)...she's just awesome. Her biggest weakness I can think of is lack of range; other than the slide, her only moves with any reach are her AB's, which are good but slow as fuck.

quote:
Seiger I heard did well at some big time tournaments, by a turtle player. If I knew the player and tournament still I'd say what but that was my basis for seiger, frankly I've never played a good seiger, I just bought it theoretically considering how they said he played. Which I know revolved around ticking and defensive play. But then again that doesn't mean he's good, just the player is.

I wanna know about this guy too. I've played Seiger for a while and all I can really come up with is trying to land the Cannon for block damage. And the occasional crossup Splash.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by Ultima on December 10th, 2001 03:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Neo Rasa
1) Rashoujin Mizuki
[clip]

Hey Rasa, why are you ranking Mizuki when she's not playable?

As for the rest of your rankings, I'd put Gen-an and Cham Cham above Genjuro, otherwise I more or less agree. Not sure if Wan Fu was that low though.

To VManOfMana:

Nakoruru was dead last. She was a counter character to Ukyo (slides go though every move he has), but otherwise she just wasn't that good. She did too little damage, had no range, very little priority in general aside from jumping C... Her only decent quality was her quick throws. She's considered to be last by just about everyone from at least 3 different countries (two of which are USA and Japan). You could still do okay with her if you were better than your opponent, but that didn't mean that she wasn't the worst character.

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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 10th, 2001 03:34 PM:

Another question I just thought of now:

Besides Nak, are there any characters who have close matches with Ukyo?

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by VManOfMana on December 10th, 2001 05:05 PM:

Ultima: then I guess I have to play players from somewhere else to see how the situation really is.

Personally, I almost never use jumping C, being jumping AB my main air attack. I find it to be a great air to air and air to ground attack. There are some exceptions I have found, and that is where I use C. My second air move is vertical jump CD for wake-ups, which I find to be great for mind games and grab setups.

My basic game is like this:
* Always keep a distance, unless it is for dashing/pressuring.
* If they jump, air AB.
* dash into them a lot.
- if they do nothing, grab them with C.
- if they try to poke, A Annu Mutsube.
* after grab, chip with Amube Yatoro.
* if they throw a missile, Kamui Ryuse and run behind the missile hoping that they will jump for air AB.
* if they throw a missile close to me, air to land AB into Annu Mutsube.
* after Annu Mutsube combo, vertical jump into CD.
- if they get hit, Annu Mutsube.
- if they block, run and grab.
* Cancel taunts for mind games.
* Cancel SD move for mind games.
In other words, I basically for for a keep away/turtle with a hit and run tactic. I feel the need to do this because of her lack of range, and a lot of people find this tactic to be extremely annoying.
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Posted by Yumi Saotome on December 10th, 2001 07:33 PM:

Here are my top three. The rest don't really matter:

1) Ukyo - Too good. Basically the only character that can jump in. Plus he has a lame 100% combo. His super is good too.

2) Charlotte - My personal favorite. Really good pokes, and damn good anti air with slash. Nobody but Ukyo can jump in on her, which forces people to play the ground game, which she wins. Loses only to Ukyo.

3) Galford - Really quick, you can land running spinning pile drivers time and time again. Projectile is really good for zoning. Can fight Ukyo.

Btw, if you can jump in against Ukyo or Charlotte and survive, then your opponent sucks. The way I've played the game from high school onward is whoever jumps first loses (except if you're Ukyo).
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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 10th, 2001 07:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yumi Saotome
1) Ukyo - Basically the only character that can jump in.

Eh, I'd have to disagree. Jubei's jumping B is great from afar, and the old-school "kamikaze jumping AB" tactic with Charlotte can be effective when combined with her normal poking game. And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more out there.

And while I don't play Galford, I agree Ukyo's #1 and Charlotte's top 3. But doesn't everybody?

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Posted by LBt1st on December 11th, 2001 12:11 AM:

I donno about top tier but my best are easliy
Ukyo then Cham Cham

I prefer Cham Cham just because she's more fun to play IMO.

-LBt1st
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Posted by Ultima on December 11th, 2001 12:40 AM:

From Yumi Saotome:

> Here are my top three. The rest don't really matter:

> 1) Ukyo - Too good. Basically the only character that can jump in.

Josh already covered this. There are quite a few characters that can jump in (hell, how can you STOP Kyroshiro or CHarlotte from jumping?). True, you seldom want to (run -> roll is much better), but Ukyo's not the only one.

> 3) Galford - Really quick, you can land running spinning pile drivers time and time again. Projectile is really good for zoning. Can fight Ukyo.

In my experience, this (i.e "Galford can fight Ukyo") isn't true by a longshot. Against Galford, Ukyo's standing/far crouching B -> C/D After Image Attack (not sure which one) is a virtual lockdown. Galford has no move that comes out fast enough to break out of this pattern.

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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 11th, 2001 04:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ultima
In my experience, this (i.e "Galford can fight Ukyo") isn't true by a longshot. Against Galford, Ukyo's standing/far crouching B -> C/D After Image Attack (not sure which one) is a virtual lockdown. Galford has no move that comes out fast enough to break out of this pattern.

It's the D version of the Afterimage. That's the one that has no recovery.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by Strike on December 11th, 2001 05:48 AM:

1-4. Ukyo, Charlotte, Jubei, Cham Cham (in that order)
5-13. Everyone else
14. Nakoruru
15. Nicotine

Nak's not the worse, the old geezer is. And DON'T bring up that pathetic "infinite" of his.
1) No one's gonna get caught with that chain move or get hit with a close standing AB
2) You can shake out of the dizzy real fast

Cham Cham does deserve to be up there, and it's not based on personal bias (although she is a favorite of mine, then again, so is Nak). Boomerang stops projectile games, Jumping Scratch is much harder to punish than you think, cross up confusion with Jumping Scratch, short stature, immediate weapon break if opponent jumps backward when you're charged (except Ukyo who can do an airfireball). The other 3 are self explainatory.

Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 11th, 2001 06:02 AM:

Strike: Jubei? Please explain. He's one of my favorites and I see him being in the top half, but not that high.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by UnCauzi on December 11th, 2001 06:48 AM:

In defense oh Jubei he has one hel of an air game with jumping B, it beats a lot of air to air and anti air. I think it's one of the only jumping attacks to actually beat kyoshiro. He's also got fast slashes and crouching B is great and if you nail a counter the damage is fucking disgusting, like hao fierce slash. Specials are also all easy to combo. Only weak point I see in jubei is his lack of any REAL AA outside of his counter and jump back B. Also his fierce has lots of double stab recovery.

Posted by CHAZumaru on December 11th, 2001 07:21 PM:

mmhhh from personal experience, Ukio and Charlotte are the only ones with whom I've beaten the last boss in level 8 w/o continues, so I'll pick these two.
Yet I only own the NG cartridge since end of october...
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Posted by Frankie on December 11th, 2001 07:27 PM:

Yeah... Ukyo takes the cake for SS2... Now if we're talking about SS4... It's all about Genjuro...
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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 11th, 2001 07:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Frankie
Yeah... Ukyo takes the cake for SS2... Now if we're talking about SS4... It's all about Genjuro...

Nah, Tam Tam owns SS4.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by CHAZumaru on December 11th, 2001 07:51 PM:

which SS4 ?
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Posted by Spider-Dan on December 11th, 2001 08:44 PM:

For the record, I think Galford is the best. (yes I am a Galford player)

Poppy is way too good. Simply alternating between C/B/AB/D dogs (in decreasing order of safety), you can poke people to death. C dog is almost totally safe (dog will retaliate if they attack Galford) and once they start trying to hit you during C startup, B or AB (depending on range) will beat anything they do. AB dog is by far the fastest projectile in the game. It's like having a WW Sonic Boom and a ST low Tiger.

At anything 1/2 screen or more, you can throw out B/C dogs, with a D dog every so often to stop jumping. IMO Poppy alone destroys most of the cast.
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Posted by fomaman on December 11th, 2001 09:11 PM:

i do not necessarily think k. genjuro is the best in any game he's been in-

he IS my fav. samurai spirits character though, and if he woulda' been in CVS2 i woulda' cried like a little bitch with happiness.
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Posted by UnCauzi on December 11th, 2001 09:37 PM:

Genjuro is ssIV the best? Not imho, in SS3 I'd say he was very close but then again everyone was broken is SS3. SSIV I'd easily say:

1.Bust Galford/Tam Tam(either)
2.Amakusa(either)/Nako(slash)
3.Sogetsu(either)

I can't really see to much of the SSIV cast competeing with these without tearing their hair out.

Posted by makstaks on December 11th, 2001 09:56 PM:

Does anyone agree that this is the best tuned and balanced fighting game? I'm talking about good fighting games here!!!

Now, granted Ukyo is the best in the game, i always saw the rest of the characters pretty much even in rankings. At its test location in Torrance CA, a new character emerged ruling the machine just about every week. The only character i never saw ruling the game would have to be earthquake...but thats probably because no one really wanted to play him.

Hmmm, i played against alot of the best ukyos but could always kill them with Cham, Seiger, Galford, Hanzo. I don't recall seeing any other characters take care of Ukyo consistently.

I'm curious here, if you could tune Ukyo, what would you do to make him not so dominant?

Kickass game, had a lot of great matches and memories.

Posted by UnCauzi on December 11th, 2001 10:45 PM:

Well I'd like to see a big ss2 tournament to be honest to see what characters come out on top, we never had any ss2 tournaments where I came from. But even though I kicked MAJOR ass with Wan Fu in my area, I'd say this game isn't balanced but it's still a good game.

Posted by Strike on December 11th, 2001 10:49 PM:

There's always Kaillera, better than nothing.

Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 12th, 2001 01:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Strike
There's always Kaillera, better than nothing.

Speaking of which, Uncauzi, didn't you say something awhile back about beating a buncha scrubs on Kaillera with Wan-Fu? I'd love to play you or Strike or anyone else here, 'cause nobody plays this game anymore.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by UnCauzi on December 12th, 2001 02:21 AM:

I'm game, though I haven't actually played the game in some time. Just popped in ol kaillera today and it seems it's just filled with losers spamming the servers and people oogling over kof2000, blah.

Posted by sigma20xx on December 12th, 2001 04:19 AM:

Now I don't use Wanfu but there is no reason that this bad MF should be last in the tiers I mean come on have you ever fought against him with a high difficulty setting? Him just like everyone else can be a SOB to try and beat. So Wanfu should not be that low on the rankinkings. To me now don't get me wrong Uykyo isn't all that great to be #1 becuase I've played some bad ass Uykyos in my time and I still kicked there asses with Hanzo and this is why I think Mr. Hattori is #1

standing a slash-beats out anything any one that gets into a close up jab session with him is toast.

standing b slash-good range and so quick it catches most people by suprise and it is good for counter attacks. Plus if you do a 2 in 1 following it up with the ground flame you don't have to worry about retaliation even from down a+b Uykyo slash.

Hanzo without his sword is still just as dangerous lets see pretty boy hold his own with out his sword.

Also his running c+d slam does massive damage rage or not.

Hanzo's low a+b does good damage and knocks you off your feet.

Lets say your fighting Haomaru and Hanzo does need his sword teleport need I say more.

Nothing catches people off guard like running and D button throw.

I love Hanzo and everything but in the light of reality I think the top 2 tier people of the game for real is Jubei and Charlotte.

Anyone disagree with anything I said

Oh yeah how can I do this whole Kaillera thing that everyone is talking becuase I would love to walk the lot of you to your cars in SS2 what do I need to do it
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Posted by Yumi Saotome on December 12th, 2001 07:26 AM:

So you're telling me that you have a jump in that stuffs Charoltte's Standing AB? Yeah, right. From my past experience, jumping into Charoltte = instant loss. Only Ukyo can jump in on that shit (and Cham Cham's special move, though if blocked, she's fucked)
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Posted by Ultima on December 12th, 2001 07:39 AM:

From sigma20xx:

>To me now don't get me wrong Uykyo isn't all that great to be #1 becuase I've played some bad ass Uykyos in my time and I still kicked there asses with Hanzo and this is why I think Mr. Hattori is #1

You obviously haven't played any good Ukyos. There is no dispute that he's No.1.

> standing a slash-beats out anything any one that gets into a close up jab session with him is toast.

His stand A was okay, but it didn't have much range and wasn't that fast. Decent enough move, but not abusable like Cham Cham low A or anything.

> standing b slash-good range and so quick it catches most people by suprise and it is good for counter attacks.

Actually, aside from following up after a hit qcb+p, it was only good for counter-attacks. One whiff standing B meant getting poked for free by Ukyo, Charlotte, Gen-an, Kyoshiro, and probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting.

> Plus if you do a 2 in 1 following it up with the ground flame you don't have to worry about retaliation even from down a+b Uykyo slash.

Do you mean standing B -> ground flame (which didn't work AFAIK) or ground flame -> standing B? The latter is decently safe if blocked.

> Hanzo without his sword is still just as dangerous lets see pretty boy hold his own with out his sword.

Not as dangerous as Galford though.

> Also his running c+d slam does massive damage rage or not.

No argument there. I forget: Didn't Hanzo's SPD used to pull his opponent out of the corner if he was already in it? I seem to remember only being able to do repeated SPD trap with Galford, but that could be because I used Galford more.

> Hanzo's low a+b does good damage and knocks you off your feet.

Has no range.

> Lets say your fighting Haomaru and Hanzo does need his sword teleport need I say more.

Uh, Haohmaru blocks then punishes Hanzo for free. I don't see how this is Hanzo's favour.

> Nothing catches people off guard like running and D button throw.

Any character with a decently fast run could do that. Galford did it better, BTW.

> I love Hanzo and everything but in the light of reality I think the top 2 tier people of the game for real is Jubei and Charlotte.

They're both above Hanzo. BUt so are Ukyo, Kyoshiro, Cham Cham, and I'd say Galford as well, personally.

To SpiderDan:

From far range, what's to stop characters with projectiles from just trading with Poppy all day? And with Ukyo, his low A and his AI attacks go through Poppy pretty easily. There's very little Galford has that can stop Ukyo from getting within low A range and drilling him with low A -> D Afterimage attack (even if you manage to get enough time to send out Poppy, Ukyo's -AI attack will cut right through her most of the time).
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Posted by Rugal 3:16 on December 12th, 2001 10:03 AM:

WOA is SS2 still played around in your area.. I'm glad though I didn't actually play it much (I wasn;t an SNK fan back then) some people told me that it was ONE OF THE BEST SNK fighting games around (up to par in classics category with some of the SF2 games even of course maybe not that high).
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Posted by Strike on December 12th, 2001 06:43 PM:

Kaillera sounds good then. Anyone want to set up a time and server? Maybe somewhere less crowded than snausages (and a little more west coast hopefully). And about Cham Cham being fucked if her Jumping Scratch is blocked... that's not true. Recovery on the C and D versions are very good. I don't see Galford = best either. I guess we can all show each other what we mean when/if we match up.

Posted by Strike on December 12th, 2001 08:32 PM:

Did one of you guys play on Kaillera as "JimboJones?" Was pretty good for Kaillera comp, but my Nak cleaned up. He even used Galford, pretty well too, but after today, I seriously think Galford has anything going for him to be 1st(-5th).

Posted by UnCauzi on December 13th, 2001 08:59 AM:

I played against Jimbojones, not bad, but he died to my Wan Fu, somebody on there gave my wan fu a good run with earthquake, beat me like 3 times actually then after I broke his pattern he switched characters *sigh* after that was a disconnection hell that is more because of my connection than anything else. Well I'm "The Fucking Turtle" if anyones down on kaillera. Just warming up so I'm not great comp or anything.

Posted by UnCauzi on December 13th, 2001 09:01 AM:

Jimbo Jones was aiight I played him today, mashing him up with wan fu, slamming him everywhere with Hanzo, and showing him the ropes with Earthquake. Still haven't ran into any real comp on Kaillera cept one guy who i went thru lag hell with. I'm "The Fucking Turtle" if anyone wants to play.

Posted by shockwave on December 13th, 2001 10:09 AM:

from spider-dan:
Poppy is way too good. Simply alternating between C/B/AB/D dogs (in decreasing order of safety), you can poke people to death. C dog is almost totally safe (dog will retaliate if they attack Galford) and once they start trying to hit you during C startup, B or AB (depending on range) will beat anything they do. AB dog is by far the fastest projectile in the game. It's like having a WW Sonic Boom and a ST low Tiger.

though poppy was a good projectile for galford, he and many of the cast would lose to ukyo in projectile wars. the b,b dash + hcf slash (firebird projectile or whatever it was called)... was too good when done in this manner. this projectile would go underneath the ground, hit galford...and ukyo would be able to block poppy in time (assuming you were doing this attack at the other end of the screen.

vs. other chars who had no late attacks like poppy...you could abuse this tactic at an even closer range..and from far distance..it would obviously go underneath any enemy projectile). this move alone can be enuff sometimes to dominate the match cuzz you're applying constant pressure. and if it forced the enemy to jump at you...they were definitely dead cuzz ukyo had the best anti-air from the ground.

on wake up, ukyo was too good..especially with the apple fake setups

throw an apple when enemy is down at close range. if they block ducking then do d,df,f,uf + slash for the standing firebird off the ground. and if they block standing do d + both slash attacks. or you could even run up and throw after the apple fake for a 3rd option.

his mixups from the shadow slice attack (qcf + C or D) was just as deadly

you'd definitely have to use ukyo to defeat ukyo. or maybe if your defense was SUPERIOR..maybe genjuro would have a chance. i remember if he was able to get ukyo dizzy with 1 strong slash, d + both slash into standing + both slash was death. (this genjuro combo also only worked for certain chars (like the ninjas)..and lucky for him..it worked on ukyo).

galford was good also though...and he also had good adv vs. many chars. especially with his in the corner dog trap for wake up (qcb + d)..the enemy would have to guess which to block 1st..either poppy falling from the sky or the low slash that galford could inflict. and i thought his invisibility was better than hanzo in that poppy was a good marker so you knew the rough area you were in (though not the exact).

and i noticed that the dogbite and tree log attack (where you fell from the sky after being hit)...would hit on both attacks vs. certain chars for mad damage...some of the chars it worked on seem to be earthquake, houmaru, caffiene, cham cham and some others only (since it didn't work on every1, i assumed this was a glitch though).

but ya...poppy was mad helpful in most matches, but i feel even she wasnt enough v ukyo.

and i didn't even mention the setups from their doll morphs.

Posted by Red Spiral on December 14th, 2001 01:33 AM:

1. Ukyo
2. Galford
2 1/2. Hanzo
3. Charlotte
4. everyonelse

Turtle with Ukyo, use his air fire thingy and dive slash plus swallow PLUS standing ab etc =victory!
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Posted by Mummy-B on December 14th, 2001 04:26 AM:

Actually, Genjuro is pretty sick because there's a glitch you can do with his fireball and slide move - it has been many years, but I am like 99.9% sure my friend could pull off an infinate with him.

I'll have to call him up when I get back home and break out the Neo Geo CD again.
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Posted by Ultima on December 14th, 2001 08:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mummy-B
Actually, Genjuro is pretty sick because there's a glitch you can do with his fireball and slide move - it has been many years, but I am like 99.9% sure my friend could pull off an infinate with him.

I thought certain characters (I forget who, but I know Galford and Hanzo were two of them) could throw Genjuro out of that supposed infinite?
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Posted by UnCauzi on December 14th, 2001 08:24 AM:

He can be thrown out of it I do it with Wan Fu.

Posted by Ukyo Tachibana on December 14th, 2001 09:12 AM:

I dunno, I was more of a fan of Samurai Spirits III than IV.

How about starting a thread about SSIII? Combos, top-tier ranks, character matchups, etc.
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Posted by fomaman on December 14th, 2001 04:00 PM:

SS (origina)- the classic- it started it all and pushed SNK to a new level- it is definately not the best of the series, though.

SS2- perfection. a classic- one of SNK's golden marks, still one of the most amazing fighting games ever. it's TRULY a work of art.

SS3- beautiful game, awesome characters and music, not-too great control.
although this has it's share of lovers who like it over the other games, this is widely regarded as the "let-down" of the SS series.

SS4- the final- and in many ways- funnest and ultimate SS game.
more characters, easier control- more combos- well balanced (for SS game)- and---------- SOGETSU! (my 2nd fav. SS char. after K.genjuro).

i LOVE all the SS games, but as i'm sure you can tell- 2 AND 4 rule in my heart.
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Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on December 14th, 2001 04:16 PM:

Sorry, but I can't agree with SS4 being balanced. Tam Tam kills all but one character with the TWO MOVES OF DOOM, and he still has a decent chance of winning that one matchup.

Josh the FunkDOC

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Posted by UnCauzi on December 14th, 2001 07:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by fomaman
SS (origina)- the classic- it started it all and pushed SNK to a new level- it is definately not the best of the series, though.

SS2- perfection. a classic- one of SNK's golden marks, still one of the most amazing fighting games ever. it's TRULY a work of art.

SS3- beautiful game, awesome characters and music, not-too great control.
although this has it's share of lovers who like it over the other games, this is widely regarded as the "let-down" of the SS series.

SS4- the final- and in many ways- funnest and ultimate SS game.
more characters, easier control- more combos- well balanced (for SS game)- and---------- SOGETSU! (my 2nd fav. SS char. after K.genjuro).

i LOVE all the SS games, but as i'm sure you can tell- 2 AND 4 rule in my heart.

SS1- was actually a very well made game it just didn't have the character selection and graphics that the others had. As far as gameplay I'd say its up to par with ss2...almost

SS2- Nuff said.

SS3- Though some liked 3, it is considered to be the dark age of the SS series, this is where SS was left behind and the other games prospered. Airblocking and disgustingly powerful combos/infinites just made the game to damned stupid. But I will agree it was a beauty but it was also a beast. Ugliest gameplay since martial champion.

ss4: Funnest? How so? Ultimate? How so? More characters? Sure not that many more than ss2 though, easier control? Sure everyone has a moronic 16 or so hit combo that can lead to an infinite for most of the cast, that can be started off of a "cd starter" that is about as fast as a light attack which ALSO leaves you enraged. Talk about brain dead gameplay. SSIV imo is not remotely balanced, Tam Tam, Bust Galford, Amakusa, and Sogetsu rule the rest of the cast. Give me reasons why they don't please. I'd also like to know how great of a game this is considering everyone practically has an infinite that takes less skill than every mvc2 infinite ever created and a one hit wonder that can be comboed which can take over 90% of an opponents life.

Posted by Ukyo Tachibana on December 14th, 2001 08:47 PM:

Heh, I don't agree with SSIII having "worse controls" than SSIV. In fact controls for this game are nearly identical to SSIV. It's just that SSIV had more options.

I do agree with Uncauzi though...the only "drawback" about SSIII is that it had "disgustingly powerful combos" and "infinites". Ukyo, for instance, has a dizzy combo that does more than 50% of your life meter...so all you need to do is repeat the dizzy combo and it finishes the match. Genjuro and Haohmaru, are ones that I am aware of that have infinites. Because of these powerful combos, matches tend to end too quickly.

I don't mind the airblocking though...it adds more strategy into the game. Their airblock system works just as well(if not better) as another game, like SFA3, for instance. I think the only thing that anyone would gripe about is that you can counterattack after an airblock. But I doubt anyone would fall for that over and over again...unless you have problems catching on.

And yah, I guess I liked the "Dark" tone of SSIII too...but hey, that's just me.

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Posted by Ultima on December 14th, 2001 09:15 PM:

> From Ukyo Tachibana:

> Heh, I don't agree with SSIII having "worse controls" than SSIV. In fact controls for this game are nearly identical to SSIV. It's just that SSIV had more options.

Yeah, the controls are pretty much the same. And both SS3 and SS4 had better controls than SS1/2 (just about the only thing they have over SS1/2).

> I do agree with Uncauzi though...the only "drawback" about SSIII is that it had "disgustingly powerful combos" and "infinites". Ukyo, for instance, has a dizzy combo that does more than 50% of your life meter...so all you need to do is repeat the dizzy combo and it finishes the match. Genjuro and Haohmaru, are ones that I am aware of that have infinites. Because of these powerful combos, matches tend to end too quickly.

Nakoruru had a 100% damage combo as well. I think she had an infinite as well (off of the bird), but I'm not sure.

> I don't mind the airblocking though...it adds more strategy into the game. Their airblock system works just as well(if not better) as another game, like SFA3, for instance. I think the only thing that anyone would gripe about is that you can counterattack after an airblock. But I doubt anyone would fall for that over and over again...unless you have problems catching on.

You must be mad. The air-blocking in SS3 is the single WORST implementation of air blocking ever. Strategy? WHAT strategy? You jump and hold back, that's it. Since you can airblock EVERYTHING, and counterattack afterwards, why would you take the risk and attack first? There was no reward for attacking first. It was especially stupid with characters who had air throws, who could jump and hold back and wait to see what their opponent did: If they attacked, air block then counter attack. If they did nothing, air throw. So stupid. Hence why they removed it in SS4.

In A3 - indeed, in any sensible implementation of air blocking (not counting the Vs. games, because those games NEED full air blocking) - you can't air block everything, which is how it should be.

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Posted by JumpsuitJesse on December 14th, 2001 09:28 PM:

I own SS2 for my Neo Geo 4 Slot MVS Arcade System...by far my favorite Neo Game...followed closely by Super Dodge Ball and Mark Of The Wolves.

I'd love to see a SS2 Tournament...I'd go for sure! I personally play straight up Hanzo. I used to play mad competition at the University of Houston...the only one who could really beat me was a really good Galford player, and we would trade off wins. I remember Ukyo being a real bitch, but I found ways to wipe him out...turtle or not. I know that overall, Galford has more options than Hanzo, but I beat most people with plain witz and pokes...mind games. Anyone wanna come over my house and play??

JumpsuitJesse
"En Guarde!"
SS2
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